Sellsius real estate marketing blog

I wanted to reply to your posting here. I am a NYC (queens) Real Estate agent - and my firm has three offices and we advertise ALOT on Craigslist. I am one of those brokers who thinks that charging is going to actually be a good thing. We are a reputable firm that does not run blind ads, we want to rent the apartments and get paid and I feel that by weeding out the brokers who post for the sake of posting or that are not doing the "right thing". Its the survival of the fittest at this point and we make money on renting apartments, so weeding out will be a good thing. If there are 2000+ queens agents posting now, I am hoping this will be cut down to 1000 or less, because of the charging. I may be one of the few who think this way, but this is the way it is now and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

I find NYC brokers to be the scum of the earth, and am glad someone is making them pay for a change. I think what we HAVE to pay brokers as the Renter, is ABSURD!!! I just wish something is done to bring the Obscene amounts of money we pay to them, down!

Will all the Real New York Rental Agents who asked Craig to charge us please stand up!

Because I for sure was not one of them. Do I want the site cleaned up? Yeah! But I don't think charging will do anything except make me list on backpage.com or matchifieds.com or somewhere else.

I can't wait to send this to everyone I know who is pissed already. This might send us all over the top.

Great post, just shows Craig has little in the way of honesty. Making himself seem charitable and organic yet the truth is hard to admit. Money Baby!!!. Needs to grow some ----- and be real.

I have to say i am done with him, try a service i have been using for a while called www.citycribs.com, they do charge but have never claimed otherwise and there service is worth the nominal fee when you try there advanced features. Also great leads, not the no fee crap.

christine,

thank you for your comment. do you believe that charging alone will help curb the issues that are prevalent on craigslist and other similar sites? or do additional measures need to be addressed as well? maybe we'll just have to wait and see what happens...

-rdb°

waldo - are you a renter? it seems that you might have had some bad experiences with brokers. did you find them on craigslist?

-rdb°

We are glad that Craigslist will start charging. It will weed out the junk and duplicate listings. We also suggested that he randomize the listings to avoid all urges to compete for the "top spot". That's what we do at TopNYCapts.com. That, combined with human verification of all agents, has ZERO'd out all spam and junk listings.

Our brokers are happy. Our tenants are happy. We're happy.

Michael Zittel
TopNYCapts.com

m.a. - that's interesting. i wonder which brokers did ask him to charge them ? if you are a broker and asked craig to charge you, besides christine, please feel free to tell us why?

-rdb°

I know who told Craig to charge. It was REBNY, a trade organization he met with in New York.

paul - many people seem to feel the way you do. it's great that you have found an alternative venue that isn't free and that has actually produced results for you. good for you.
have you ever had successful results using craigslist? in the sales or rental section?

-rdb°

michael (topnyapts) - i had a long conversation with craig via his forum some time ago regarding quality control. it's great to see you include some of these safeguards on your website. i'm sure your users really do appreciate it.

regards,

-rdb°

3 cents - do you know this for a fact? where did you get your information?

-rdb°

NO FEE BROKER HERE Waldo Jones .

10$ AN AD IS SICK THAT MEANS AN AVARGE BROKER/ AGENT HAS TO

SHELL OUT 250$ A MONTH FOR THE SAME THING THEY USED TO GET FOR

CENS, IF YOUR GONING TO CHARGE BROKERS CHARGE EVERYONE

FROM SEA TO SHIING SEA

taso - you bring up a common question that seems to be on many people's minds - why charge only the rental brokers in NYC?

» what about brokers that are in sales?

» what about landlords?

» what about owners?

» what about other cities?

the flip side of that coin is that all those other people in all other cities who submit listings must be REALLY happy that the new fees per listing only apply to rental agents.

or does everyone else really want craig to charge them too but just haven't had a chance to ask him yet?

anyone have an answer for that? taso?

-rdb°

to rdb

Re: craig & RENBY

It is an educated guess based on the fact that Craig met w/REBNY officials in October 2005 and soon after announced he would charge. Craig is from San Fran. There is no way he met with select NYC rental brokers & was told this as a consensus view--there is not a consensus among the users of CL---from the forums it seems there is a strong dissent to the fee.
More likely for a man of his internet stature, he went right to the top of NYC's elite broker organization. NYC has no MLS but it has REBNY. They speak (supposedly) for the power brokers in the city.

Here is a clue from craig's blog: 10/20/05

http://www.cnewmark.com/archives/2005_10.html

The Keyboard of justice at the Real Estate Board of NY

.....last week, I met with folks from REBNY, the Real Estate Board of NYC.

....We made some progress regarding charging for rental listings in NYC, they all want that, and it looks like a small fee, maybe $10 per post, would help them all. ...

More to come...
Posted by craig at 11:49 AM

M.A.

Sounds like it's already working. Beat it deadbeat.

Well, let's put it this way - For some reason, If people think that the ALL the NYC Rental agents are "scum" as per good ole Waldo, because we charge a fee - then I would like to ask HIM - why shouldn't we charge the tenants a fee? Who should pay for our services? Comments like that just annoy me...

But getting back to your question "do you believe that charging alone will help curb the issues that are prevalent on craigslist and other similar sites?" Yes, I do think it will CURB the prevalent issues - solve them all?? NO.. but I am not afraid that this will hurt me in any shape or form. I think that it might just help, Maybe it will weed out all the Jacka** that give us all a bad name. Will I post as much as I do? No, but I will make sure that my postings stand out and I will provide customers with my same outstanding services that I always do.

"do additional measures need to be addressed as well?" Yes other measure wil be addressed - that I know will be. WHY? because now I am paying for a service that was never promised to remain free.

What I want to also know is why is everyone so pissed off that Craig will make money off this? Who really cares? Why shouldn't he make money and who are you to count his money? I don't see anyone going out on a limb and making a site like his. Sure there are other sites and I advertise on all of them. TRUST me when I tell you - But NONE - NONE of them give me as many leads and calls as Craigslist. That is a FACT. I track my advertising, I track my phone calls - I know that this won't hurt as much as everyone thinks it will - unless you are "Scum" and are not doing the advertising right. Listen, I will make money - ALWAYS - I worry about what I do and how I do it, so I am not counting or watching what Craig will make - just what I do. If in time, I don't continue to make money there - then will I sit here and post on everyones site about how horrible Craig is? NOO.. I will find some how to make my money and Wont waste my time.

3 cents - yes, craig did meet with rebny and if that's who he relied on to make his decision, then maybe that's not so bad. rebny is a well respected group that many are a part of.

on the flip side of that coin, however, are all the little brokers who may not be a part of rebny. or the brokers who are in the outer boroughs who most likely are not part of rebny. i think it's really these guys who are the ones who are the most concerned. not to mention all the "bad guys" out there that really give all the good, honest and hard working brokers a bad name - shame on them. if this will make them go away, than that's a good thing. right?

-rdb°

CRAIG IS THE BOSS AND HE CAN DO WHATEVER HE WISHES...I HAVE ONLY 2 PROBLEMS WITH ALL OF THIS...THAT HE IS ONLY DOING IT IN N.Y.,IF YOU GO TO THE SAN FRANCISCO SIGHT,OR ANY OTHER LARGE SITE-IT IS PRACTICALLY THE SAME VOLUME-WHY JUST US? NUMBER 2-LAST SUMMER I READ THIS WONDERFUL STORY IN"DANS PAPER" ABOUT CRAIG-HOW AMAZING HE WAS AND WHAT A FAIR AND "REAL PERSON" HE WAS-DOING THIS TO THE SMALL NY REALTOR AND ONLY HELPING THE "BIG" GUYS SAYS IT ALL-CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT DAN RATNER{DANS PAPER} HAS TO SAY NOW! I KNEW YOU WERE TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE,CRAIG-SO LONG!

christine - you are one of the "good guys"! as far as charging alone, i don't think that will curb most of the issues like bait and switch. but then again, maybe it won't matter. who knows. i like what michael from topnycapts has done to insure quality on his site - no top posting - human verification of all agents. craig could have done the same thing and so he wouldn't have to charge a fee. i wonder if he ever considered that? i know in my conversations with him that he shot those possibilities down. but, he has made up his mind.

as a "paying member" of craigslist, what other things will be addressed to make it worth your time, energy and money?

re: leads - it's very interesting that you get the most calls and leads from craigslist. what other places do you advertise in? what's the ROI like for those venues? i wonder how many others are as dilligent as you and maintain a detailed record of their advertising history. that would be a great issue to discuss - craigslist vs. all other advertising venues - who provides the best bang for the buck?

p.s. i have always believed the ny times was the best for leads? times are a changing aren't they?

linda - thanks for stopping by! you make two great points:
1. why is he only charging nyc rental brokers when other cities experience the same issue from all types of listers?
2. why aren't the discounts slanted towards the smaller brokers?

great questions linda but i don't have answers for them. your frustrations are felt by many and i too would like to know the answers to them. maybe this "test" should have taken place in san francisco rather than new york. oh well...

-rdb°

Use other free sites to post.

Just found a new one today.

http://www.UptownX.com

Always found Craigslist to be too cluttered anyway.

It's funny how these renters hate brokers

when they have a month to move,

and suddenly love brokers when they have 3 days left to move.

Craigslist has never been on the side of the broker.

Not saying that is should, but it should be fair.

I'm moving all my firms ads to http://www.UptownX.com

and we're telling everybody to switch.

$10 per ad? - that's lunch money!

And it's per ad!

rbd - You see there is a whole different world from Queens and Manhattan - So the NYTimes was only good for me for High end Condos/co-ops or multi million dollar homes. I can say that honestly I don't think I ever placed an ad for apartments in NYT. Newsday has just gone down the tubes and for me, who does Nassau and Queens - it is way out of the justification of advertising cost. In order for me to place an ad in the Nassau paper - I have to do a FULL run. That is absurd. So I found that the internet gives my my best form of advertising. I mean don't get me wrong I still have to advertise in the papers - but mainly for open houses and new listings. Apartments come and go so fast that I don't even print run them alot. BUT - we are one of the top Queens rental agency.
As for TopNYapts - we use them too. We have had our ups and downs with that site and I am no where near the the volume of calls that I get with CL. CitiCrybs - use em. Matchifieds.com - use em, UptownX.com Use em - and MANY MANY More. But the traffic that CL gets is in NO comparison with anyone else. It just evolved that way. Why is it ok for everyone for CL to charge for jobs? If you look at that section - there is not a "fake ad" There is not stupid people posting for "Porn Stars" This is well kept, because would I want to throw away 25$ a pop for stupid stuff? NOO.. I use it when I need employees/agents. I get a return on that too. It just works.

In a perfect world none of this would be an issue - I just don't think that Craig is doing this merely for the money. Can YOU imagine the amount of BS he takes - seriously. Look at how all the brokers are crying everywhere - check out his forum. Could you imagine what his emails look like daily? Could you imagine listening to that DAY AFTER DAY---- for free? Ugh. I'd blow my brains out.

But let me get one more thing straight - I did not go to Craig and ASK him to charge me.. NOPE.. I just have not voiced a cry out of no. I dont feel its that horrible. I hope it wont be that horrible.

I don't blame Craig for charging, though it does seem unfair not to charge in other areas as well, but the fact of the matter is that brokers have been spoiled by free internet advertising like Craig's. Advertising as a business makes it's revenue from giving other busunesses the exposure that they want, usually depending on how much money they want to spend. NYC being one of the most densely populated aeas in the country exploits just about every inch of space available to promote something, and those spaces damn sure aren't free! Unfortunately brokers feel now like they are being ripped off by Craig's fee because they are used to getting his services for free. What they should realize is that in this day in age advertising money is what runs our media in this country, in every form, and the real point is that since you are going to wind up paying for advertising... you should at least get what you pay for. This is the current problem with Craig's. The fee imposed requires a serious upgrade of the services offered. I work for a listing company that offers unlimited listings for brokers for one nominal set price. No, I'm not going to spam up this site by plugging it, but I feel it's in everyone's best interest to realize that there are other options out there that, while they are not free, for the money you spend you will get much better service, lead tracking, and other features and mainly, the leads and results you are looking for. Every other industry in America still has to manage an advertising budget... I don't see why NY broker's, who are in one of the the busiest cities in the world, can't make room for any advertising costs at all! I think everyone should suck it up and move on. There are plenty of advertising options, whether you want to pay and get quality leads that you can count on, or switch to another free service that can't guarantee results and therefore have less bussiness and still be unsatisfied! I know if you were going to spend a few thousand dollars on Craig's List, there are many other options that are much more cost effective and give you more features and better results. It's just takes a little bit of research!

Hi Rdb,

Yes i used craiglist for years, mostly for rentals, never much success on the sale side. Most of the sale side where looking for a tour guide. On the rentals side in my register of deals i found only 3 over the course of 4 years that where fee paying clients. No fee is really where they are strong and low end budgets.

Also i have read the other posts in refernece to other services, i have to say i have tried them all that are worth while, CL does have the most traffic but that does not mean its the best traffic, i have found that citycribs presents the best all round experience from there brand to the service and there focus on housing only. I have paid for there service with on great fee deal for years to come.

A good way to compare sites is www.alexa.com check them out you can view data on all sites. Some of the sites listed above dont even have a ranking. Anyways gotta get back to work, good luck to all. try www.citycribs.com its your best bet.

jenny - glad to hear you're open to trying out new sites. which other sites have you tried and how did they work out for you? as i always say - you never know where someone will look so list everywhere you can.

-rdb°

We offer a FREE classifieds service for NY and the 5 boroughs. Our web site url is www.nyposting.com There are no fees, and many users have posted already. Check us out.

christine - glad to see that you have found what works and what doesn't work for you as far as print and online advertising goes.

i understand your point about how most people wouldn't throw away ($25 for a job ad) or $10 rental ad for stupid stuff. but, there are people out there that will do that. that's the sad part.

understood - you personally, did not ask him to charge you and that's perfectly fine. however, i would really like to find at least "one" broker/agent who personally did ask craig to charge them. just curious if we can find one :)

-rdb°

ryan - you make some great points!

points:

1. seems unfair for craig not to charge in other areas as well
2. advertising runs media in this country
3. fee imposed requires a serious upgrade
4. there are other options out there
5. it just takes a little bit of research

reply:

1. yes, it does seem unfair to charge only one type of lister, in one specific category, in city only when these same issues exist elsewhere. maybe it's just a "TEST" - others to follow?
2. :)
3. you get what you pay for
4. many options which should all be explored
5. put in the time and effort and you will see results

p.s. please feel free to discuss your site here if you feel it is a value to the community. if you really offer a good service, who am i to tell you that by you trying to inform others here on my blog that it is spam? last i checked, this is america, right?

-rdb°

paul - thank you for sharing your advertising experience with us all. we appreciate it.

it's interesting to see what segment of craigslist helped you. it seems that low end no fee rentals are what really worked for you on craigslist which makes sense. many who use craigslist are looking for thse types of deals.

besides citycribs, which is a viable option, which others have you tried and what were the results?

thanks for sharing the alexa tip with everyone. people should go to alexa and see what each sites traffic ranking is. it can help you understand how popular the site is. it's not a science by any means, so take the rankings with a grain of salt. but it helps.

-rdb°

nyposting - thanks for letting everyone know that you exist. more choices the better.

-rdb°

You're welcome. our goal at nyposting.com is to create a unified NY, and what better way to do this than to offer users a free service where they can post, answer, and browse classifieds.

everyone - since we have had many other listing sites mentioned here, what we are working on now is to create a long list of all the listing sites out there for New York - but may include any others out there as well. we will try to highlight what they offer but may need some help from all of you as to your personal experiences with them. as well as why you will or will not use them?

this way everyone can make some we'll informed decisions for themselves.

seem fair?

-rdb°

We agree, this will be fair :)

I would love to see such a list and have other brokers comment on the pros & cons. It would give me some options besides CL. Thanks
PS pretty good blog you have here

Thanks for the reply. Since Craig is now charging and you mentioned listing available sites... I work at www.ForRent.Com and we offer broker packages for NY with unlimited listings available. WE ARE NOT FREE but we offer service and exposure that more than makes up for the nominal fees we charge. We've been growing since Craig first started talking of charging, and ForRent.Com spends millions on keywords and marketing for you and has been bringing over 100 direct leads a month to many well known brokers in NY for some time, and we now average about 70,000 unique visitors a month on our site searching specifically for rentals in NYC! I understand that brokers in NY are used to listing for free, but you have to realize that places like backpage and listingmania don't bring you traffic from outside of NY, or the ability to track your leads and really tell the effectiveness of your ad! Do you have any idea how many people move to NYC from other parts of ther country each year? I'm sure it's an awful lot of business to miss out on! Anyway... my e-mail is ryan.shaughnessy@forrent.com if you are interested in finding out about national exposure and customer service that responds to your suggestions and ideas! I also think a list of options for brokers is a great idea, paid and free. After all, the point of any good paid advertising is that the new business brought in by it outweighs the cost incurred, and when that's the case, isn't it really free anyway?!?

ryan - thanks for highlighting your service! it gives honest & hardworking NYC brokers another option. best of luck to you.

-rdb°

I think craig charging might affect their site the same way it did for yahoo rentals.

Although we already had one client today who wants to write a check to craig for 10 thousand dollars to get a rental discount of $5 a listing.

It really is unfair to all agents and brokers in every part of New York City, except Manhattan to pay the $10 fee. It seems that listings today dropped to 10% before charging was in effect.

Queens had 2,000 listings yesterday loaded, today they have 200.

My company has about 35,000 listings and we do their portal routing to most major real estate portals for one flat monthly fee.

www.postyourlistings.com is cost effective, but you have to admire Craig.
He probably made close to 30 thousand dollars today. If his site contiinues to draw visitors. I'm sure there will be more areas that will be charged.

Gary

Based on his business model, yes Craig will charge in other markets. He selectively charges--usually the bigger markets. Not very democratic of him but totally capitalistic.

gary -let me know what your flat monthly fee is so i can add you to the list.

-rdb°

dan b - do you think he'll charge sales brokers, owners and landlords too? what market is next? Boston? L.A.? San Fran?

-rdb°

The fee for www.postyourlistings.com is $25 a month.
Thanks for listings us, we have about 500 brokers in New York State that use us.

I think if craig starts charging for his web site in other areas it will be a barren posting board. There are other companies that have much more efficient
searchable databases.

Craig could have improved his web site with a search option along with other filters so that listings are not displayed by post date by default.

If google decides to start advertising Google base, it could be very suceesful.
In some areas all you do is put your town and real estate and all listings are displayed with thumbnail photos and listing agent contac info.

I was not one of the brokers who asked Criag to charge - in fact I was in the group that suggested giving the smaller brokers who handle exclusives their own section. The larger firms are the problem - they know they can run blind ads and bait & switch - the Dept of State can do nothing to stop it, period.

I think the $10.00 fee, although cheap, isn't really worth it for what the site is providing to the agents - especially the agents who handle real exclusives and charge 12-15% fees.

Remember, not only are we competing with the "blind ad - bait & switchers" we are also competing with the way they have chosen to cheapen the rental market in general. They will charge one month's rent on a listing that the prospective tenant can rent directly from the landlord - if the tenant is lucky enough to find the Landlord's ad before the "bait & switcher agent's" ad.

The general public does not respond well to brokers and we have these low-end brokers to thank for this, as the sedcond comment on this site by "Waldo Jones" demonstrates. This behavior started back about 12 years ago upon the inception of a well known firm which will remain nameless. This firm set the tone for this behavior and as agents left this firm and started their own companies they did the same and so forth and so on.

The "Waldo Jones'" are fed up and lump all rental brokers into one cauldron of losers and it is unfortunate.

I post on about 20 other sites and am hoping some of those sites will step up to the plate and replace CL in traffic, we shall see.

The more a listing service charges the more legit the add becomes. NYTimes.com is very expensive to post. The key is stay away from the adds you see posted more than 5 times by the same firm. Stay with the firms that have been around more than 10 years or you know the agent very well. Photos and a write up has to be on the property listing or it's bogus. Your agent should have at least 4 years in the business or you are deffinately missing out on things you should be seeing. Remember you are paying a broker to make your life easier not harder.

april - still trying to find at least "one" broker / agent who actually asked Craig to charge them.

so is this "bait & switch" person actually just finding a landlords ad or anyone elses ad for that matter, and promoting as their own? hoping to snag the tenant and get a fee?

i'm sure your clients appreciate that you post on many sites. good job.

-rdb°

david - thank you for your comment!

you make some great points:

1. "The more a listing service charges the more legit the add becomes." - i guess you get what you pay for.

2. "Remember you are paying a broker to make your life easier not harder." - agreed, brokers are immersed in the market day in, day out. they know what's out ther, how to find it & how to market it. i guess you get what you pay for in this regard as well.

besides the NYTimes online, which other venues do you advertise in? how do you measure the results of your advertising? are your clients informed of where their listings appear? do they have a say?

-rdb°

You're a moron. If you don't like what brokers charge, find an apartment on your own. I can't understand losers like you. If you go in a Prada store, are you complaining it's too expensive?

...that was for WALDO

Long and short of it - I have been using craigslist since its inception into the new York market. In the beginning CL was awesome, pure real ads, no BS. I loved it. Then we get a hot real estate market and a bunch of wannabe brokers join the mix and ruin it for all. Shady, bait and switch brokers began clogging up the airwaves...and I joined in the chant and met with Craig several times about this topic. He had to do it. Brokers were screwing people and it made the experience at craigslist horrible - THE REASON WE BROKERS USE CL IS BECAUSE BUYERS GO THERE - by being ass****'s we are driving buyers away and ruining a good thing.... I will let you know, that the BS in the Real Estate for Sale section is horrible now, it's at a fever pitch and if these unscrupulous bastards don't stop clogging that section with crap - we'll see charges there too. So to all my brokers, follow the rules, play nice and flag anyone that does not comply with the CL guidelines.

FURTHERMORE to the REBNY joker...

HE DID MEET WITH "LOWLY BROKERS" you just weren't there, he met with us via e-mail, via the message board and in person - I AM NOT IN REBNY I am a Brooklyn Broker - the difference is I know how to use CL and I know how to contact Craig - so do a million other people. He has been talking about this for awhile and sending out warnings - no one listened, tough titties now you pay to post.... and let me tell you $10 is a joke. The exposure from CL, SEO benefits, etc.... we should be happy it's not $50 - and that would still be worth it. Don't be a schmuck. We make good money renting and selling homes, a little bit of cost is good for tax write-offs - or maybe you make no money because you suck and you're a shitty broker.

bkreguy - thanks for sharing you experiences with all of us! we really appreciate it.

so did you personally ask craig to charge you? did he offer any other alternatives besides charging a fee?

seems like there needs to be some higher standards in the industry to either :
a. get a real estate license
b. maintain your license

the barrier may just be too low. that's why there may be some "bad guys" running around out there doing some not so nice things to consumers & fellow broker/agents. this gives all honest hard working real estate professionals a bad name. douglas heddings of the blog TrueGotham.com, touched upon this very important point some time ago. visit his blog to see the details. this is the bigger issue that needs to be addressed. one that goes beyond the realm of craigslist.

-rdb°

p.s. i will address this very important issue in a future post. anyone who would like to send me some points, please feel free.

april - wow! thanks for providing such great detail. you really highlight an industry wide problem, such as i mentioned in the above comment. this is what needs to be addressed at a higher level. there may need to be an overhaul of the system with real consequences for unethical behavior. it all starts with education. e.g. in order to become a doctor, you don't just take a course and receive a license. you have many many years of schooling and training before you can practice. i'm not saying that real estate agents should have to go through a similar process, just one that has higher standards than currently exist. this would help weed out the "bad guys", as craig calls them, before they have a chance to hurt the consumer and fellow broker/agents. this is the difficult part.

re: your one other point - only time will tell.

consumers are savvy. they will find the best places to find apartments and will spread the word. that i am sure of.

-rdb°

There is a real estate technology conference every year - Inman - in NY and SF. Craig has made an appearance there each year to meet with brokers that are tech savvy. Hundreds of brokers attend this conference, in which you cna sit chest to chest with good ol Craig and vent, thank, take a picture with etc...

So 2 years ago at Inman he had stated that the complaints from consumers, the flagging, etc, had gotten so out of hand, even the state dept had contacted CL a few times - so he had to address the issue.

You see CL has to tread that line between politics and the consumer now b/c of it's size and integration into our world. So to keep the DOS off of his back and to keep the consumer happy he started playing around with the fee thing.... This has been out in the public eye for awhile now.

When He mentioned it I whole heartedly agreed with it. The price point, the reasons, everything made logical sense. Personally, if I did rentals I would pay the $10. He also mentioned that if the real estate for sale section doesn't clean up that may follow... could it be spin? Maybe. Maybe he just wants to make loads of money? So what. good for him, there are no ads there, no BS, I like it and it's good.

as far as "raising the Bar" - NYSAR (the NYS chapter of NAR) is currently lobbying the state to do just that. There are several points that we are battling for in the state legislature, including full disclosure of co-op admission apps - standardization, etc. here are a few things us realtors are working on:

BILL BANNING SEX OFFENDERS PASSES SENATE - Legislation that would ban sex offenders from obtaining or holding a real estate license passed the Senate this week (S.8037/A.11664). This is a new measure for 2006 that was unveiled at NYSAR’s annual Lobby Day in Albany held on June 6th. The Assembly version of the bill is in the Assembly Judiciary Committee.

REAL ESTATE EDUCATION ENAHNCEMENT BILL PASSES ASSEMBLY – A bill that would increase the classroom hours that must be completed to obtain a salesperson’s license from 45 to 75 hours passed the Assembly this week (A8053-A/S4898-A). The bill also requires two years of supervision to be eligible for a brokers license, requires office managers to hold a brokers license, eliminates the so-called “grandfather clause” exemption for continuing education (applies only to those licensed after enactment of the bill) and the creation of new photo pocket cards.

CLOSE OF SESSION PREVIEW – State lawmakers are scheduled to conclude the 2006 session on or about Thursday, June 22. In the closing days NYSAR will be seeking passage in the Senate of the education enhancement bill, passage in the Senate and Assembly of legislation to revise the real estate agency disclosure form (S.44-C/A.4135-C) and Assembly passage of the Commission Escrow Act and the sex offender ban bills. NYSAR will also be actively opposing a number of bills including broker verification of zoning (S.322/A.1492).

Could Craig have curtailed the abuses without charging?

On our forum debate with him & also in personal discussion at Inman NYC (where we were Silver Sponsors) we touched on some of these alternatives with him, including:
1. requiring licensing disclosure of all listers checked against DOS records
2. non chronological stacking of listings---this design fosters reposting to secure prominent top placement of ads
3. auto deactivation of listings after 7-14 days

And why the selective fee structure? Do these abuses not occur in other cities and in the landlord section & in sales? Were New Yorkers right to complain about selective billing?

BKreGuy - funny you mention the inman news conference because sellsius° was a silver sponsor at the nyc real estate connect event . that's also where i met and spoke to craig this past january. if you're in real estate, the inman conference is the place to be.

NYSAR seems to be on the right path. Raising the bar with education and awareness is key.

thank you for pointing out some of the items that NYSAR & realtors are working. it will be interesting to see if they pass. we'll try to follow the decision but if we miss the results, please let us know.

sincerely,

-rdb°

Ok, I see what you are saying Sellsius - but don't all those things need man power to police? How is 1, 2, 10, 20 people suppose to police ALL the listings in housing in ALL the states and ALL those country's? How is anyone going to police all the flagging, all the emails, all the problematic brokers that are out there? HOW is one or 50 people suppose to do that? He solved his problem and created more, but.. he's making money at it now. Didn't someone say that wounds can be healed if you rub money on them? Why is Craig such a bad guy IF .. and I mean IF he decided that you know what.. "all this BS and I am not making a dime off the brokers", and most of the BS is from the NY Brokers, why does charging the brokers make him so bad? Everyone is here debating if he is right or wrong - a good guy or a bad guy, greedy or not.. Listen it is what it is and now three days into it, I feel the effects of Craig charging. I noticed the drop in calls, I am still getting calls, but a couple of times I had to check to see if my phone was working. I went from 20 to a small percent. So I am not thrilled about it. Not at all, but who ruined it?? NOT Craig - he just put a stop to all that BS - it was the NYC Brokers who pulled the rug out from under us. They are the ones that people should be pissed at. They are the ones who brought this all on. So, there are sites like VLS, ForRent.com, RentNet, Etc etc etc.. but they DO NOT get the response like CL did. And I mean DID. Its very sad..

christine - craigslist made over $25 million last year by charging a few select cities for job ads. now he's charging nyc rental brokers for real estate ads. are you saying that with that kind of money he can't hire a better customer service staff to properly accomodate his communities needs?

besides craigslist, which other advertising site or venue has produced results for you since the new fee?

-rdb°

I still think it's craigslist is a bargain for agents and brokers, they got rid of most of the posting abusers. Some Rental Listings are still free after New York was recatagorized. My company has been busy all week setting up our interface to post rentals with the new paying accounts.

I have seen at least twenty thousand in checks written to Craig to buy bulk accounts this week. Compare that to the NY Times and the Wall Street Journal and it is a good deal for $10 compared to over $100 per listing

Google Base takes rentals for free, but since it's still in beta, it doesn't work the same in all areas. When Google wants to promote their real estate listings, it can be a very good site to post on.

Yahoo, was very sucessful for leads for rentals and sales, but they sold out to Prudential for sales and didn't see any money from their rentals and now charge thousands a month to bulk load.

I think there will always be free web sites for posting listings that generate leads.

Hi Sellsius

Thank you for reviewing and adding http://www.UptownX.com

We’ve made some changes to make the site better.

1. All ads are now html enabled - you can reference pictures from your site, put links to your site etc.

2. Drop down menu to narrow search to boroughs (e.g Manhattan, Bronx etc)

3. Added Long Island as a seperate location.

If you have any further suggestions, feel free to drop us a line.

Once again,

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I haven't gotten much done these days. So it goes. What can I say? I've just been letting everything pass me by. Basically not much going on lately, but it's not important. I've basically been doing nothing worth mentioning.

The RE agent drop in income story has other facets.Agents incomes are way down. The figures calculated are probably directionally correct overall. What makes things worse for the agents is that they're not doing 54% less work, or incurring 54% less out of pocket costs. Many pay for system access and certain RE related services out of pocket. With income reduced but expenses holding steady, the reduction in their net income is more pronounced. Many of these agents are also spending significant amounts of time and energy working on short sales. Few of these transactions end up closing and yielding commission $ as many banks are dragging their feet on dealing with problems. The only people who seem to have it worse are the spec builders. Many are being boiled alive as the problems they put off in 2008 by renting out unsold inventory are now snowballing into massive losses.