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Showdown in Blogtown: First Blogger Debate

Published by Joseph Ferrara (2) March 16th, 2007 in Blog Debate. Comments

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Sellsius is proud to announce the First Blogger Debate. Freedom of speech is based, in part, on the belief that Truth is forged in the furnace of the free exchange of ideas in reasoned and open debate.

A question has arisen in the real estate blogos whether certain blog behavior should be discouraged. Specifically that of St. Paul Real Estate blogger Teresa Boardman, who had proposed a joke, now a blog, called the Real Estate Weenie.

The Weenie’s professed mission:

“…. to seek out bad advice for real estate professionals and consumers.” Toward that end it will bestow “weenie awards, a weenie roll and a weekly carnival of crud, in an attempt to recognize the worst of the worst and acknowledge the just plain stupid.” (emphasis added)

Before the Weenie could launch a single weenie post into blogspace, there came a response from Greg Swann, erudite blogger of the Bloodhound Blog. He bestowed his own Cheez Wiz Award on the Weenie. Greg awards the Cheez Wiz Prize to the “the stoopidest application of gee whiz technology to come across my desk.” (emphasis added). (In addition to the Weenie, the CW Award has been given to a couple of newly launced sites)

We wonder: Is there a double standard here or does the Weenie cross the line? Surely a reasoned debate should bring us to the truth. Hence, the First Blogger Debate:

Cheez Wiz v. The Weenie. Is the Cheeze Wiz Award acceptable blog behavior, to be supported, and The Weenie unacceptable blog behavior to be discouraged? We naturally invite Teresa Boardman and Greg Swann to be the first blog debaters on this topic. Should either, or both, refuse, we invite ANYONE to take part.

The Rules are relatively simple (but subject to further complication):

1. No personal attacks by debaters or commenters. We shall moderate the Debate.

2. Each debater shall email their position and supporting arguments to Sellsius and we will publish them on an announced date.

3. After posting, each debater may address the argument of the other and offer counterargument or further argument in their own support. This will be done in the Comment section. After the counter, each party shall take turns addressing the other’s points. This shall continue for 5 exchanges. After that point, any reader may pose a question to a debater or make a comment.

4. We may post a Poll for a vote to decide the winner of the debate. We’ll take feedback on that.

We also announce the Carnival of Blog Debate. Any other blog that wishes to host a blog debate should email us. The host may choose the Blog Debate Topic and run the debate as they see fit.

God Bless America and Freedom of Speech!

Disclaimer: The likeness of the images to anyone living, dead, or living dead is totally coincidential. Heck, we’ve haven’t seen any naked bloggers (yet). The sheriff’s nakedness is meant to represent “transparency” on the net.

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  • DavidGaffaney
    It can be good to prepare a little for a blind date uncensored in that sense, with simple questions, perhaps about your date’s lifestyle, hobbies and their perspectives about the latest news story or TV show.
  • Who is Jeff Turner?
  • Man..the whole deal was about something that never happened :(

    What happened to Jeff Turner? I read he was some sort of 'casualty'?
  • A friggin blog war and I wasn't invited???

    Oooh...I can't wait to dig into both sites..Weenie Whiz, yum...

    And whatever I have to do to get into the blog 'debate' et. al...let me know Joe and Rudy! ;)
  • As a California organic, I think I'll pass on the cheez & weenies. Too toxic for my tastes.


    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." --Mahatma Gandhi
  • At this risk of getting the last word here, I tried cheeze wiz last night. All I can say is I will try anything once. I think it is mostly orange salt. I wonder if it is still clinging to my arteries as I write this a day later?
  • Wow.. this has definitely taken on a life of its own..
  • Renee Burrows
    TLW, my turn to stalk you but I second what she said: I need to get out of the rain more often!
  • The Lovely Wife...
    Wow. I guess I need to get out of The Rain more often :)
  • Damon,

    YOU said: "As a graceful winner of the Cheez Whiz prize myself, I would love to debate this topic"

    I accept.
  • Whenever the "Smartest kid in the class" is also the bully, other classmates will begin to think they're not very cool. If you don't believe me ask any 8th grader you know.

    As a graceful winner of the Cheez Whiz prize myself, I would love to debate this topic. There are a lot of good points and counter points on each side. I would hate to think that some of those points can't be made because one of the debaters feels like they're being picked on by even suggesting the topic is even debatable.

    The notion that free speech is too "demeaning" to debate is ridiculous. Especially in the blogosphere; the home of free speech.
  • I'M IN. G.
  • Brian,

    The stated criteria for the Cheez Whiz prize was for "stupidity" in technology. Fine. But Greg CHANGED it so he could give it to Teresa's "weenie idea", which is NOT technology. (It is noteworthy that one weenie criteria was also stupidity). Second, he also changed the BASIS of the prize for Teresa ---it went from stupidty to "venality". And here lies the crux of it.

    Venality is a moral accusation associated with "intentional" corruption, while stupidity has no such moral underpinning. Do you see the difference----how this is an attack on the "character of a "person" and not on a "technology application"? And all this withot a single weenie being awarded---that to me is prejudgment. If the weenie was awarded in a venal way---we would certianly not have supported it---but we gave Teresa the benefit of the doubt and waited to see what would come of it. (The proof as they say, is in the pudding.) But Greg did neither. Do you not see how he might have prejudged Teresa and convicted her without sufficient evidence?

    As to smartness---that is a relative concept. There is book smart, street smart, good with your hands smart, people skills smart, etc. Even the idea that someone is smartest is an "elistist" concept I prefer not to endorse, certainly not as far as blogging is concerned. This idea that A PERSON is smarter or stoopider, contributes to the growing division in the real estate blogging community and encourages the cliquey mentality Kris Berg writes of.

    Thank you Brian for your comments. At least you can make an argument without resorting to personal attack. This is what intelligent people do. And this is what we had hoped the debate would be. Alas, even smart people can be mean.
  • This has gotta be good.....beanie weenies go well with mush-tard. Guns are warm and ready, set, go ! I'm in :>)
  • Jack,

    I never accused your bride of being the smartest kid in the class. I, of course, appreciate and applaud any man who defends his wife as I would do the same for mine of 8 years.

    Greg Swann most certainly indicts your bride of elitism. Teresa's idea of determining what is or isn't good or bad advice smacks of just that. And Sellsius piled on the "smart kid" by inviting this gang bang of comments from the "in crowd".

    Teresa's idea lacks original thought. It defends her lofty perch through sniping as a way to defend that perch. Greg called her to task for it. Frankly, I find that beneath her and was appalled she would resort to it.

    I applaud your chivalry, Sir. I assure you that I have no issue with your bride's faux pas; I believe she created it in jest and it morphed into poor taste. My issue is with sheep that watched this car accident, necks craned, to watch the public slaughter.

    Nice work, everybody.
  • Jack Boardman
    The "smartest kid in the class" did not launch a preemptive strike without evidence that there was a clear & present danger to the 'hound.
    The "smartest kid in the class" did not base this attack on nonexistent, or at best, very flimsy evidence.
    The "smartest kid in the class" answers questions without resorting to sesquipedalian language to obfuscate.
    The "smartest kid in the class" ain't no hound dog, but is a friend of mine, for the past thirty years, twenty-seven of which as my bride.
  • The former is an analysis of the practical (or impractical) application of real estate technologies while the latter basically says "I'm smarter than you so your ideas have no merit".

    The fact that these comments continue exhibits that the real estate weblogging community has little more to do than write about museums and gang up on anyone with original thought.

    It is apparent that no one likes the smartest kid in the class.
  • I am still not quite clear why it was OK to dispense "Whizzies" but not "Weenies?"
  • OK You are right. I love you Greg Swann.
  • Where intentions lie....so true Christine.

    Idolizing weenies was big back during the time of the Romans, or was it the Greeks :)

    The weenie, once unleashed, may indeed be venal, but until the venal act is done, we cannot justly condemn it. Some people just can't hold their cheese.

    I think it was Nathan of Nathan's Famous Hot Dogs who once said: "You cannot taste the weenie until it is cooked, only then can you judge it good or bad." (or maybe it was Lar)
  • People who use Cheese Whiz should not throw rocks at the Weenie.

    Calling out anyone in a demeaning way is not blogging but more like bashing. I did not like the intial weenie idea but when you see full circle, I have come to understad the weenie and perhaps idolize it.

    Where intentions lie brings out the true uglyness, that just my opinion.
  • Perhaps he laid on the Wiz too heavy and too soon. He just doesn't know Teresa well enough to know where her heart is---or her funny bone. Methinks he made a mistake but can't own up to it. (That aint easy for anyone to do----just ask my wife.) By debating, he'll just dig himself a little deeper IMO. His best course may be just to avoid it---the debate challenge will leave the front page soon and people will move on to other things.

    If the Whiz was on the other foot (huh?), most would have defended him in the name of free speech. Would love to hear him debate Teresa though. Could he convince us the weenie is venal & bad for mankind? Don't see how he possibly could, since there was no actual weenieness cited---just a moral principle. It's like getting arrested for a bad thought.

    If this were a trial, TB would be found not guilty for lack of evidence and GS guilty of false arrest of a food product.
  • Many distinguished people accept awards like the Razzies with grace. Many recipients agree they were well chosen. There's a lot of content that could and should be challenged on a lot of levels. Having some weenie-in-cheek fun with it isn't such a bad thing. Too bad the ego is such a fragile thing. Sitting on the high horse of righteousness is always a tough act regardless of one's philosophical bent.
  • Well said John. Love is the answer. Why can't we all just blog along?

    We think the support of Teresa's weenie may be more about Greg's rush to judgment and a possible double standard. Not a single weenie was launched before he condemned it, after some reflection, as "venal and an intentional transgression". Strong stuff. What if the weenie were justified in pointing out bad folk ---would it not be a community service? And what if it were just harmless fun? We just don't have enough weenie facts to throw her in blog jail or give her a whizzing for venality. Heck, we have no facts other than it was an idea, borne of a joke. That's our opinion.

    Wethinks Greg Swann will not debate Teresa for reasons unknown other than his last words: "We demean ourselves even to pretend the issue is debatable."
  • Guys, the first ammendment covers the GOVERNMENT passing laws limiting Freedom of speech. There's nothing that says an Internet bully can't exercise his own freedom of speech by attempting to limit that of others.

    On the one hand, I've portrayed Greg Swan as being so vain he thought the Weenie blog was about him. On the other, let's not be too hasty to screw the halo above Teresa's head -- I pretty much had a feeling when I read it that she had Greg in mind, too. So if you bait a bully who's just quietly minding his business with the considerable following he's built up on his own site and he in turn bullies you, it wasn't like you were quietly walking to school when he stole your lunch money.

    So the guy's a bully. Does that justify hating him? Well, as the Buddha said, "Hatred is never solved by hatred, but by love."

    Or as Elvis Costello inquired rhetorically, "What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding?" Nothing at all, presumably -- which by antithesis suggests why this thread will be so amusing. Traffic always slows down beside a car wreck because we all love to watch, don't we?

    One more:

    "Love's in need of love today
    Don't delay send yours in right away
    Hate's going round
    Breaking many hearts
    Stop it please before it goes too far."

    If none of us believe it when Stevie Wonder sings it, we're all screwed.
  • My guess, you have challenged a spitfire and a weenie. The weenie knows he will be roasted over the spit. I think he will go to his dictionary and find a long list of big words that justify not showing up. It is like the gunfight at now way corral. (I think that is the name of the movie.) Lar
  • 60 Minutes make a career out of weenie roasting. Perhaps Dan Rather would have won a Whizzer.
  • I'm there, too. I don't see how Greg could decline. I have never had cheez whiz, but I think I like a weenie better, because it comes in so many varieties, I saw the weenie a few days ago and it made me laugh, and I thought yea free speech is great!
  • OK Jeff. That's the spirit.
  • O.K. you talked me into it. I'll try cheeze wiz, it just looks gross.
  • I would be willing to pick up a can of Cheez Whiz and take aim at Teresa's Weenie, if Greg declines. (I'm reading that sentence again and I really like the way it turned out.)
  • Cheez Whiz is of questionable nutritional value?!? I am deeply saddened to hear this. Bonnie was a meat packer? I don't know what to think of that.

    But I do know I can't wait to see this debate, and I'll gladly throw fuel on the fire. I mean ask questions of the debaters.
  • You are very perceptive Bonnie.
  • There is no way in the world I would attempt to stand in Greg's shoes and debate Teresa. However, as a former meat packer who has manufactured and processed many thousand weenies in my short career, I see very little difference between a weenie and Cheese Whiz. They are both NOT real and both are highly processed foods with questionable nourishment value. Is it possible that this symbolism was intended and that neither the weenie blog nor the Cheese Whiz award have any nutritional value, but are only, I repeat, ONLY for fun and enjoyment?
  • We have passed the invitation to debate Teresa to Greg Swann. We await his decision. Should he decline, is there anyone who would like to be his second?
  • if i can help it. ha!
  • exciting...i'll be in as observer. :)
  • I wouldn't miss it.
  • Speaking of Teresa and naked bloggers... I think I saw her today on Real Estate Undressed.
    http://realestateundressed.com/2007/03/16/guest...
  • I'm in
  • Actually we think the whole affair is ridiculous (hence the satirical image) but it does bring into focus important issues of free speech. Whiz and let Whiz has always been our motto.

    It also provided the impetus for the Blog Debate, an event we had wanted to do for a long time but could not find a worthwhile topic. I hope Greg accepts the invitation as well. He makes a point, but can he defend it in a debate. We shall see.

    BTW, Cheez Wiz is great on hard pretzels. It goes great with a burnt weenie sandwich.
  • I accept. Artificial food products, with or without additives, weenies and cheez wiz are worthy topics for such a debate. I must confess I have never actually eaten cheeze wiz but several bloggers are recommending it as a food that works well with weenies. When I saw this post, the water I was drinking ended up all over my computer screen as I attempted to swallow and laugh at the same time. It will be a struggle but I think I can get a grip and debate these serious and improtant topics, and oh yea free speach too.
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