Sellsius° (Baby the GermanRotChow)
versus
Odysseus the Bloodhound
The Touchstone
I read this on BHB:
>>>Sellsius° wonders if Zillow will allow sellers to opt-out of the Zestimate on their listed home. Two words: Like fun. Zillow’s stock in trade is its transparency: “We may be wrong, but we’re boundlessly forthcoming.” They would be fools to hide anything< <.
First, our reply:
It would not be Zillow hiding anything (though we think it undermines their credibility to shine a light on grossly inaccurate estimates in the first place), it would be an Owner, or their agent, exercising their right to prevent “inaccurate” information (especially as to value) from appearing with their list price. The issue is not transparency, it is accuracy and owners’ rights. If you zestimate my home inaccurately, the fact that you say you are forthcoming is beside the point. Forthcoming with fallacy is not a virtue. They would be fools to think so.
The Wager
We wager that Zillow will allow listing owners the option (they may not call it a right) to “hide” (they definitely won’t use the term “opt-out”) the zestimate from the owner’s listing. We have to set a time frame. It took months before Zillow recognized their zestimates needed fixin’ and asked owners to help them out. So we have to pick a reasonable time. How about by April 1, April Fools Day?
The Pay-Off
If we’re wrong, we’ll post a photo of jf wearing a Bloodhound Realty t-shirt (along with feeble excuses like “David G. had his money on Greg”). If we’re right, Greg, or Cathleen (we’re giving you an opt-out Greg) will wear a Sellsius° t-shirt to be likewise posted on BHB.
Deal?
Tobey’s feeling left out, boys …
Personally I also think it only will be a matter of time, though that may cause issues for those do-it-yourself buyers trying to use Zillow’s estimate as a baseline.
Great blog bet - come on bloodhound, take the bet. It certainly will drive some traffic on 4/1. The winner should get to post the picture on their site too.
Can I make you move? I offer you $100.00 for your most excellent blog. I am sure it is worth millions with you writing it but not worth nearly as much if I take it over.
Just send me the blog and I’ll send $100 to your pay pal account.
JD, we would never think of leaving out a top-notch pooch like Tobey. You’re welcome to participate. I could use another t-shirt
You sure you want to drive this crazy train Teresa? Come to think about it, you would be perfect :). Since this is a team blog, you’d need a co-pilot. I suggest that wild and crazy Lar.
I think Cathy’s going to be in the Wet T-Shirt contest.
Wet t-shirt contest? No one told us. Is Jon the P Monger behind it?
Ardell, I have not heard from Greg on the bet. Perhaps we broke some blogging rule we weren’t aware of. I just hope he doesn’t call the blog police
I hate to rain on your party…but get out the umbrellas. If I’m understanding what this wager is about, it’s already become a moot point. See David G’s post on Active Rain
It appears that when a property gets listed on Zillow, the listing price and not the Zestimate is what folks will see on the home page, on searches, etc.
Given this has already happened, and that Greg has not responded to this wager, I’m not sure what the next step would be. Sellsius t-shirts for all, perhaps — including one for 3oceans’ sleuthing services.
Not so, Pink Panther
On the general search results page (SERP) the zestimate is just beside the sale price. When you go to the individual details page the zestimate is further down, along with that silly stock, i mean house value chart.
http://www.zillow.com/search/Search.htm?addrstrthood=tucson&citystatezip=az
The link above is E Scarlett Street in Tucson, AZ.
Cathleen also did a post on BHB about listing a property and she has issues with the zestimate remaining too. The hound does not howl with the pack on this one. He says it’s a transparency issue. Since when does transparency justify the publication of inaccurate information, esp, right beside my listing price? A nice buzz word but we see right through it. And tell David G I dont want him standing with a zestimate sign beside my lawn sign either
It’s my listing gosh darn it, get that distraction out of my buyer’s face.
BTW, you should know that David G is a very good dancer. I’ve danced with him many a time (see Mining the Elusive Unzillowables to see some of his fancier steps)
http://blog.sellsiusrealestate.com/2006/09/15/mining-the-elusive-unzillowable/
Dont get me wrong on this one. Zillow is much more valuable as a listing site than a magic shop. A listing site was on the drawing board since day one. We just know there’s a smoking gun memo on this somewhere. You should sleuth for that—here’s a clue—it probabaly has special sauce stains on it
And there’s more to come—they have licenses in several states.
hmmm, I like the idea. I just sent the wild and crazy blogging Lar an email=l, maybe we should try doing a couple of posts together. We do kind of click and actually talk to each other on one of those old fashioned phone things. He still does not understand the two hour time difference, but I think he can be educated.
You and Lar are always welcome to post anything here, if you like.
That Lar is a hoot, as are you—but sharp hoots.
I agree Sellsius - It would be one thing to have your listings just posted onto the Zillow Site - But to offer a List price and a ZESTIMATE back to back - is absurd, its distracting and undermining the asking prices. Now are the bloggers going to say that the buyers know better and that their stupidity on believing Zillow is NOT the price? I would have been fine with the listing portal - but having listing price and the Zestimates is just wrong. I don’t want the Zestimates there.
Exactly Christine. Anyone who has tried to sell real estate IN THE REAL WORLD knows what we’re talking about. This is not a philosophical debate about transparency. The reality is it is distracting and interferes, potentially, with the marketing and sale of homes. It’s another thing to have to explain to your client.
It’s a matter of owner, or their agent’s, right/choice to not have inaccurate information anywhere near their lisitng, ESPECIALLY if it’s grossly wrong. Zillow says zestimates are “a” starting point. OK why put a starting point (of unknown reliability) next to the price an owner is tryng to sell their home for. It’s like having David G stand beside your house lawn sign with his own sign. (I have to photoshop that one) If something stinks, don’t hold on to it to save face. Admit it’s a bad idea and let’s get crackin on lovin’ those real estate agents. The weenies at the wheel just dont get it. I bet the VCs get it.
This issue is so obvious to us, and others, we can’t understand the logic otherwise. David G help explain it to us without using the word transparency. Transparent falsehoods (grossly inaccurate zestimates) serve no one.
Besides, Z knows the real estate community had major issues with their valuation proclamations. Yet, they ask us to advertise despite that. Do they think those objections go away just because they give us a free venue to list? Agents listings will put real money in z’s pockets.
Zillow is now offering something of real value and yet they continue to muck it up. That’s what happens when you get a statistician to market a house.
How about - we DO use the word Transparent - Correct me if I am wrong - but the definition of transparency - A high degree of market transparency can result in disintermediation due to the buyer’s increased knowledge of supply pricing.
So if disintermediation is the removal of intermediaries in a supply chain that means that you would be “cutting out the middleman” which had some type of intermediate (such as a distributor, wholesaler, broker, or agent), companies may now deal with every customer directly, for sale or not, so for example - the Internet.
so, while everyone speculates and trys and plays with the AVMs and inputs their listings, they are in fact handing over the correct information that is need to just cut them right out of the pie. Greg talks about pie on his blog today - and while the buyers and sellers want PIE we must bake the pie. But - while we (Real Estate agents)are baking the “pie” - the consumers are going out calling the owners themselves. WHY? We gave them the right too.
Do I think that Zillow will become the national MLS? Nope. BUT - I dont have a crystal ball - but I would think it could very well become the national FSBO Site - and hey ya know what - throw in a couple of Lic. Agents and “we can assist you to buy this home” tactics - and voila - agents are cut.
Now, the avms that are so off - will be fixed! Why? Because the “pie” Bakers fixed them.
People could say that I am opting for the buyers and sellers to remain uneducated and that is the furthest thing from the truth. It is easier to deal with a buyer who knows the market or a seller for that matter who knows how much their home is truly worth. But by giving the sellers the WRONG inflated information is wrong. By giving the buyers the LOW AVM is wrong too. There is too much back tracking that I have to do to correct the situation.
I can’t disagree with your logic. It very well can become a FSBO MLS. Certainly FSBOS and agents will share the space. But FSBOs soon realize that there is a lot to making a sale happen than a handshake. Negotiating the best price, contracts, contingencies, inspections etc, etc require professional help. I just don’t see the professional cut out by a site like zillow. Not in my lifetime at least.
Hi Sellsius, it’s David from Zillow,
What size are you guys and to what address do I send the Zillow t-shirts?
Seriously though; free-to-consumer online estimates are here to stay. As you know, our API partners also display Zestimates with their listings - because consumers get it. Zillow strives to offer buyers and sellers the best of both of these worlds of real estate information. We will continue to invest in the accuracy of Zestimates — and continue to build the web’s best showcase for your listings. We believe that both are possible.
I guess I’m going to owe you a t-shirt david.
Who makes the calls on this issue david?
Has no owner or agent asked zillow to allow them to hide an inaccurate zestimate? I understand you want to get the zestimates accurate but if they’re not accurate now, why can’t I have them hidden from potential buyers?
I can’t believe no one has asked for this option?