Source: Firebrand
What a great ocean view.
Real Estate agents are independent contractors, unless they work for a company like Redfin. That means agents are not employees. Sometimes, brokers blur the line and treat their independent contractors like employees. When this happens, the relationship changes in many ways. So what’s the big deal?
Our friend Shaun McLane from EKDAY.com was caught in this dilemma. He wrote a tongue and cheek post about sex and real estate which also included a sexy slideshow with women in bikinis - he is from Orlando you know. His female broker did not like the video and gave him an ultimatum: remove it or I’ll remove you from my company. The slideshow is still up. Shaun no longer works for that broker.
Shaun’s slideshow which he was fired for.
Did the broker go too far? Was Shaun stubborn by not removing the slideshow? Does sex sell real estate? Inquiring minds want to know.
Let’s look at it from another angle. Does a real estate broker have the right to edit/censor what their agents write about on their own blog?
Others covering the story:
The Future of Real Estate Marketing - Erik Hersman
Thanks for the post guys! I’m exhausted from dealing with this, but wanted to let you know I really appreciate you sharing this. The opinions on this seem split right down the middle so far. I’d love ot hear what the Sellsius readers think.
BTW - Thanks for the tweet - I’m following you now.
Both sides obviously have supportable positions. As a designated broker for the last 30 years, I’m chuckling about the potential for unintended consequences stemming from a court battle over this.
Picture the IRS sitting in the gallery hearing the woman who fired the offending agent testify for an hour or two using syntax any nine year old would understand as EMPLOYER/EMPLOYEE speak.
Oops.
I wonder, if as happened over 20 years ago to a Long Beach Ca. brokerage, the IRS would then descend upon her office, explaining to her what changes would now be imposed on her agents’ paychecks.
If my memory serves me, that broker closed their doors almost immediately. He had around 400 agents.
His peers weren’t real happy with him either, which wasn’t a surprise to anyone.
I already commented at length on Shaun’s blog.
Was he stubborn? Yes. Is that bad? Not necessarily.
Does sex sell real estate? Probably. Attractive agents may have an advantage over ugly mugs such as myself. And sex sells everything else, why not real estate?
But just because someone is an independent contractor does not give them carte blanche to do whatever they want, particularly when it comes to advertising (which ostensibly is what the video was). At least in Arizona (and maybe different in Florida), the designated broker has to approve all advertising. They are liable for it, so they have the right to approve/deny it. It’s the broker’s ass in a sling, not the agents, if anything goes awry with state or fed regs.
Would I have fired Shaun? I don’t know. I would have had a long chat, with a mutual exchange and discussion — listening to his side and explaining mine. Maybe I’m way out there, but I think we could have come to an agreement where both of us were happy.
It was a brilliant marketing experiment. As a broker, I WANT that kind of “out of the box” thinking — though maybe not that specific ploy.
Does a broker have the right to edit/censor an agents blog? That’s tricky. Strictly speaking, I think so (in AZ). Do they? Well, my broker knows I blog but I doubt he’s ever read it (or could even find it). Should a broker edit an agents blog? I would hope they would have enough trust in their agents, and train them properly, so that all were aware of any regulations — and they would steer well clear of censoring/editing unless absolutely necessary to protect the brokerage, and agent.
As an aside, the video would be illegal in Arizona. Not because of the hotties, but because of failure to disclose brokerage affiliation, display the EHO logo, etc… I strongly suspect (though don’t know for fact) the same is true in Florida.
Legally, Jay is on the money. (No wonder he is THE Phoenix RE Guy). The broker was well within her right to fire you (sorry about that Shaun). Heck, she could have fired you for parking in her spot.
Nonetheless, I would have promoted you to the marketing department. Your creativity is a valuable asset– if you channeled it away from T&A (unless you’re marketing to the college crowd), you could really add value to the brokerage. Of course, being independent and outspoken, it is easy for me to favor your free expression of an idea visually– it was a question after all—had it been all in text (as some bloggers might mandate if they had the power), it would not have the same impact. All that said, it was ultimately a business decision and you have to respect her right to run her business as SHE sees fit.
PS: Put your next video on http://bloggerazzitv.com/
devils advocate jay:
“But just because someone is an independent contractor does not give them carte blanche to do whatever they want, particularly when it comes to advertising (which ostensibly is what the video was). At least in Arizona (and maybe different in Florida), the designated broker has to approve all advertising.
is blogging really considered advertising? if so, has your designated broker approved all of the content on your blog?
“is blogging really considered advertising? if so, has your designated broker approved all of the content on your blog?”
*Great* question Rudy!
And I’m not sure what the answer is.
I *know* some that say it is nothing but advertising. Many feel it is marketing, and the line between marketing and advertising is very thin.
I suspect the NAR and various associations are discussing your very question as we speak (not that what they say would be any sort of definitive answer).
I personally don’t think of my blog as “advertising”, though clearly it does bring in prospects and clients, so I could see why someone could argue that it is exactly that.
As for my broker, he’s a Luddite. He knows I blog, but I suspect he couldn’t even find my blog with both hands and a Google GPS. He’d probably cringe at some of what I post, and shake his head at most.
But in a couple of weeks or so, his opinion won’t matter anyway.
i was just thinking about the bigger picture here jay. will the NAR, local boards or even your broker try to take our soapboxes away? will they try to dictate what we can or can’t say on our own darn blogs? if they they do, then what?
this is not the first time i’ve heard about an instance where an agent has been strong armed for being creative. it’s just a little scary that’s all. the solution is what many others have done - become a broker yourself and be your own boss. but please children, remember not to break any fair housing laws
although the slideshow shaun did did not convince me that sex sells real estate, he was just trying to get people’s attention. a sexy video showing hot dudes and chicks selling real estate can be easily produced. i think tony longo has one in the works already
if i caught your drift correctly, best of luck to you on your new venture jay!
I think it was Jim Duncan (VA) who told us his MLS considers a blog advertising. Did I get that right Rudy?
And someone said (maybe it was Jim again) that each blog post had to have the agent’s name, contact info & affiliation.
In any case, the broker will make the rules and the agent will have to play along since the broker has liability issues for the agent’s acts, even if they are independent contractors. As with anything else, the agent can refuse, get fired, sue the broker and leave it to some judge (and arguing lawyers) to sort it out.
I come down on the side of free speech– let the agents blog so long as they put a disclaimer that they don’t speak for the broker.
–jf
No one has answered the question. Jease…Ill have to step up!
YES SEX DOES SELL REAL ESTATE…..GOOD JOB SHAWN!
May the seriousness about having disclaimers on our blogs would be appropriate. You know the opinions of the author are not necessary the opinions of the broker blah blah blah… We have had some great discussion about something similar on active rain ironically about an Orlando Blogger being sued by a school for her blog.
As for firing…nah, would I have made you take it down? yes. The other concern…who’s pictures were being used in the video? There are all of these liabilities that we have to think about as we put ourself out there for the world to critic.
Does sex sell…you bet, so does controversy…look at the number hits ekday has on it in the last few day.
*maybe
Thanks for all the comments. I had to step away for awhile and catch my breath.
First, let me address the photos. I am also a professional real estate photographer, so I try to be very careful about images. I found these in the creative commons license section of flickr. I did my absolute best to find the shots that are licensed for sharing.
Now that some of the dust is starting to settle, I’ve had time to reflect. I’ve also been forced to think about things that hadn’t really entered my mind.
Would I go back and change anything? Hell no. I stand by my work. That said, maybe the disclaimer should have been the way to go.
I’ve had a ton of support today (thanks to the MANY of you that called me. lol) I want to serve up something that might make this whole day seem like marketing genius (though, I didn’t plan for any of this to happen this way).
I am a licensed broker - have been for over three years, acting as a broker associate. I submitted my application for a business license back in July, but due to an error in the paperwork, it was delayed. I received a call a few days ago that I should be getting my license in a few weeks and will be able to open my own office.
Now, had this situation not happened, I would have made the transition to the new office, and posted on my blog. At the very best, my small-ish subscriber base (which has doubled in the last 2 days - go figure) would have seen the news, and maybe a few hundred of my visitors. I would have had to spend money and mail-outs, or other forms of mass marketing to inform everyone of the change - no cheap task.
Well, I image this traffic will continue for a few days, and as a result of being fired, I was forced to add a disclaimer to my homepage explaining that I am currently unable to offer real estate services, however, I will be opening the doors to our NEW office in a few weeks.
Like I said, this is not how I planned this to play out - wish I could say I did, but it has, and looking back, I think I’m pretty damn happy with the results!
Again thanks for all of you that have commented. I appreciate every bit of the feedback.
Good luck Shaun.
If you do a press release for your new office, send it over and we’ll post it.
Maybe I’m missing something. Everyone is focusing on whether the firing was legal or the post was legal plus the whole freedom of expression thing.
I’m more interested in why anyone would create a video like this on a real estate blog? How would this blog post attract clients? In fact, wouldn’t it be more likely to turn clients off?
This might make Shaun a celebrity in the blogosphere but I can’t imagine it would help his business. I guess everyone blogs for different reasons.
@Linda Blogging is not a science. There’s not one right way to do it, and the results aren’t always what you’d expect.
The support I received from fellow bloggers, realtors, marketers, AND prospects has been unbelievable. My phone hasn’t stopped ringing, and the emails are flooding in. Apparently, sticking to my guns says something about my character, and it turns out, there are a LOT of people that like that.
The reason so many people are now focusing on the legal issues, and censorship concerns is because that affects all of us as bloggers, and they are issues that need to be tackled.
Lastly, if you don’t think exposure (good, bad, or indifferent) can help your business, you might want to do a little research. I tried pulling up your website from 3 computers, but I received a security warning on all of them - that doesn’t help your business does it?
Babble, babble, babble-
The questions were:
-Did the Broker go to far? IMHO yes - I’m not going to get into the legalities here - I just think it was a bad move.
-Was Shaun stubborn for not removing the slideshow? ABSOLUTELY! Good job!
-Does sex sell real estate? Of course - sex sells EVERYTHING. How many ads can you come up with that don’t have some? Subtle or not, not too many.
Lastly- My Broker checked out the story and your slideshow- if you ever want to move to Palm Beach there will be a job waiting for you.
Interesting.
Both NAR’s Risk Management and Professional Standards committees have been dealing with blogs to some degree. I won’t recap all that here as I have posted about it all along on my blog.
In NH the broker is responsible for all of the agent’s actions including what they say on their blogs. So they would have the right to fire an agent not following policy. The liability alone would demand compliance.
Blogs are being looked at as advertising and marketing even by NAR so disclosures on them are crucial.
I haven’t seen the original post on Shaun’s blog just this video so my question is…what about equal opportunity? Where are all the hot guys??
Does Sex sell…I’m with Linda and say you risk offending BUT that really depends on what your trying to sell.
Sure this will drive traffic to your site and you’ll be fielding phone calls but in the end will it help you sell real estate??? I don’t know…you’ll need to tell us when the dust settles. I’m all for out of the box marketing ideas…so I’ll really be inetrested in the results.
BTW Good luck with your new office Shuan and jay.
Good point monika.
Corcoran, a well respected brokerage in New York, ran an ad– with a fit topless man– in a NYC billboard. No problem.
Sex does sell. Everything is about either sex or money, or both because most people want more than they have.
As for the video, I guess it wouldn’t fit my business image and would not sit well with my clients or potential clients. I am not sure if my broker would care. I self censor to a degree and am now considering putting a disclaimer on St. Paul re stating that I am solely responsible for the content and that the opinions are mine and I will go one step further and say that I do take responsibility for my content, and the content of any guest writer.
I have been waiting for something like this to happen and predict that brokers will start making some rules becasue of it.
Thanks for remembering me.
Here is the post I wrote in July.
The Real estate Board of the Commonwealth of Virginia does consider pretty much any communication by Realtors/real estate licensees to be advertising. They are behind the times, certainly, as is the NAR, but both are apparently trying to move forward with regards to regulating (or not) a medium that is still being defined.
Should every Tweet have a “I am a Realtor” disclosure? Every Utter?
It seems that many (most? all?) states have regulations saying that the Broker owns the listings and is responsible for the advertising. So long as everything on the blog is honest, truthful and factual and opinions are disclosed as such - there shouldn’t be any problem.
As a Realtor, I am aware that all of my advertising has to conform to my broker’s and franchise’s standards.
I am curious what the franchises’ opinions are about agents blogging.
I’ve said it before - I blog to provide information to readers, be they buyers, sellers, whomever. That I happen to get business is a byproduct and is welcome, but that was never the intent (does intent matter?).
Marketing homes, hotels and other real estate as sexy has never been a problem– but we seem to have a problem with the people. Blame it on the Pilgrims, I guess
My understanding of creative commons license is that it requires attribution. I always give credit for the photos I use from flickr.
You are unforgettable Jim
Push will come to shove when brokers demand that their agents either:
(a) run all their blogs posts by them for approval, editing, deletion or
(b) ban blogging altogether.
Many can swallow (a) but not (b). The b choice may turn many into Property Grunts. http://propertygrunt.blogspot.com/
What would you do if faced with these choices by your broker?
There was a big flap in 2005 over the following billboard: http://www.knbc.com/irresistible/4480712/detail.html. It’s not my style but then I don’t have her body. I remember well my comments on Real Talk which go with all comments I make on dress and the real estate agent. My client and I came to the investment property and parked behind a Jaguar convertible. My client’s comment was he bet the car belonged to the listing agent. Sure enough, it did. The agent materialized with spike sling back heels, designer blue jeans, bare midriff, and windblown bottle blond hair. Lots of diamonds and bling. BUT she wowed both of us by personally opening each apartment, giving us copies of the leases and Schedule E with private info blacked out, giving us a pro-forma, etc. It was a first with this client to see an agent on the listing side doing their job. We got back in the car and as she drove away, he commented, “She deserves the car.”
Ultimately in Minnesota, the broker is liable for the behaviors of their licensees. They don’t employ them but the licensees are to act as sub-agents for their broker. Things that make you go hmmmm? We have to put our logos and company name on everything.
I work for a smaller company because I don’t want the corporate pressure to conform. I really don’t like the cheerleading sessions or drinking the kool-aid. My broker backs me because he knows he doesn’t have to worry about my behavior.
Was the video funny? On one level it was hilarious. From a professional view, it’s kind of a toss up. Would he say something about the video if it were on my blog? Probably, but frankly, I wouldn’t put it there. The written word is a flat medium and can easily be misunderstood.
I would hate to face that choice…but I do have a Brokers license and can go out on my own. Like Bonnie said my broker also does not need to worry about my blogging. But there are many that I would worry about if I was their broker and responsible for their actions.
I do think it’s only a matter of time.
Shaun, next time go for subtlety.
http://frostfirepulse.com/files/u1/jellad.jpg
At least we know sex generates publicity.
I think we are all missing the point.
I can think of a couple great reasons to fire the blogger:
1. It offended women(the broker at least)
2. It is bad for the brokers brand
Bottom line it is bad for business as defined by the broker.
For the blogger it was good for business because his little publicity stunt (the kids are calling it link bait these days) worked and I am sure his rss is now in many readers as well as his inbound links are more than ever.
This is some really great information.
Thank you very much!